Today is the anniversary of the liberation of Khorramshahr and Ahmadinejad who never spent a single day in the front during the war with Saddam, was desperately trying to exploit the occasion for one of his cheap publicity stunts. It could have been another publicity stunt, the rent a crowd were there, the state TV cameras were playing their usual tricks, only one thing did not go ahead as planned. Unemployed workers had rushed to the area and kept chanting 'Unemployment, Unemployment' and it was all heard on the State TV:
He he he!!! What an idiot! Obviously the numbers and the voices of people are bigger than the basijis they've paid to turn up!!
Pack up and leave you pathological liar.
you're the idiot here. The fact that your "revolution" fizzled out and is now in the dustbin of history should tell you all you need to know about your kind.
You don't have the suppor of people in Iran. Iranians aren't like you, they dont' want to become a vassal state of the west.
Pity they also didn't chant 'Pinnochio - Pinnochio!" That would'e done on a comedic level. But "Khamanei's whore!" Would've far better served the outraged conscience of the fair minded Iranian Nation!
P.s.. Didn't the final days of Ceausescu show him address a puppet crowd while the real people's outrage could be plainly heard on the flanks..??? Come on Iranian's!!! The anniversary of your bogus elections is coming up! Take a leaf out of Romania's book over 20 years ago, and finally show this murdering cheating dog regime that they are finished!
yeh, not gonna happen, keep dreaming though, the world needs people like you.
The "uprising" is nothing but a fraction of the people of Iran who are unhappy because they want artifical freedoms that the majority of Iranians don't really care for.
I am willing to bet $100 to your favorite charity, that come this "anniversary"...nothing will happen...it will just go by with a whimper.
So when are the workers going to hook up with the Green movement and become a truly irresistible force?
You and the other bache sepahis like you are the real vassal state of the west. Everyone knows that Khomeini was brought to power with grand payment of $65 million dollars having been deposited in his bank account by the Americans and the British.
Since then the IR has been working for the interests of the west. Go on believing you represent Iranians; you are deluded my friend.
The IR has secured its place by brutal suppression. However this is short lived. The victory will be ours soon enough.
SZ you moron - you keep talking about the Iranian population not wanting to be a vassal state of the west - just like the regime ignores the real issues of the Iranian people so do you. What Iranian people want is employment, an end to corruption, an end to the horrific inflated prices of basic food items, a stable economy, good foreign policy and relations with other nations (which doesn't alienate the country), a good healthcare system, freedom of press, freedom of opinion, a government that is elected freely and fairly, a government that is answerable to the nation. Are these artifical freedoms you dick? The IRI have failed the population on all these counts.
All this posturing and rhetoric that Ahmadinejad, Khamenei and the rest of the regime cronies come out with is bullshit. The regime only cares about lining its own pockets and maintaining its power through fear. Whatever statistics you want to bring to the table regarding GDP, the fact remains that people in Iran are suffering, hungry, unemployed and the regime is battering them into silence everytime they protest. A government is supposed to be answerable to the nation and this regime does not have the ability nor legitimacy to govern. The IRI is corrupt in every sense.
Your regime is scared of losing its absolute power - you know it, I know it and the world knows it. Your regime is a disgrace - it shows its fear every time it imprisons, tortures and attempts to silence people through any means it can. The change Iranians want will come you asshole - I hope sooner rather than later. I'm not surprised so many people have stayed off the streets with the rape, torture and murder the regime commits. I would be just as fearful as those brave boys, girls, men and women that have to stood up to the regime in Iran over the past year. All you fuckers will face the justice you deserve eventually. It might take some more time but eventually every dictatorship fails. Don't for one minute think the Iranian people have failed in their quest for change, everytime they have raised their voices, everytime they have protested, everytime someone has been imprisoned unjustly - it is a victory against the regime.
So continue to sit at your computer and gloat at the battering and suffering of the Iranian population. You're a soulless mass of flesh that has been conditioned by the regime like all the badbakht basijis that regurgitate the bullshit they are fed on. Go fuck yourself.
Once again, don't be a blithering idiot. Go ahead and prove your assertion that Khomeini was given $65 million by Americans and British........ill wait for that source. Something tells me you won't have it, and then claim that I get a check from the Iranian Government.
Also, show me how the IR has been working for the West as a Vassal state. Last I checed, we were under sanctions for wanting nuclear energy in our country.
"The IR has secured its place by brutal suppression. However this is short lived. The victory will be ours soon enough."
Yeh......that's why we have elections, that's why we have more freedoms than any other country in the middle east....that's why we have a stable government, and a strong military....because we suppress our people and because we have no popular support....yep, that must be it.....NOT! you're an idiot Neda, go back to doing whatever it is you do over there in the UK. But unless you have some verifiable facts about Iran, Shut the fuck up.
Oh yes, they have "elections"!!! That's why thousands of people have been arrested, tortured and raped!!
"eh......that's why we have elections, that's why we have more freedoms than any other country in the middle east....that's why we have a stable government"
What planet are you on?? Can you explain then why teachers and bus drivers are in jail? Why is Osanloo in Jail? Why are lawyers who are defending their clients in jail? Why are people being arrested for the way they dress?? Is this all to do with a democratically elected government?? Why was Jaffar Panahi in jail?
Why do millions of people come on to their balcony, every night at 10 pm, shouting death to dictator and death to Khamenei? Don't you get the message?? How stupid are you??
hahahahahahaha...nice talking points, let's dissect your idiotic argument, dude, seriously, you need to stop with the talking points, it gets old. I will correct you one more time.
"What Iranian people want is employment, an end to corruption, an end to the horrific inflated prices of basic food items, a stable economy, good foreign policy and relations with other nations (which doesn't alienate the country), a good healthcare system, freedom of press, freedom of opinion, a government that is elected freely and fairly, a government that is answerable to the nation. Are these artifical freedoms you dick? The IRI have failed the population on all these counts."
What you just described, Iranians do want, and for the most part, our government, and our people are working toward that everyday. Iran is much further ahead on all those issues than we were after the war ended in 1989. And with all the sanctions on us, we are doing a reasonably good job. Can we do better, sure, but each government has its challenges. Thank God we have elections unlike other Middle Eastern nations.
"The regime only cares about lining its own pockets and maintaining its power through fear."
Hmm...do you have any sources to show that the Supreme leader, or any other government figure that is elected is lining their own pockets? In any country, the ruling elite are wealthy and the people for the most part are not. This is the same in European countries, and other world countries. Its a fact of life. But for your dumb ass to claim that Iranian politicians are corrupt, or more corrupt than others is simply idiotic, but i don't expect anything more from a lackey like you.
"Whatever statistics you want to bring to the table regarding GDP, the fact remains that people in Iran are suffering, hungry, unemployed and the regime is battering them into silence everytime they protest."
HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA....so you discount actual factual data supporting my argument?? Really? That's the best you can do? So using your logic, no matter what people present to you about Iran and its economy, you disagree because you want to? Fuck you idiot, you can't deny factual data. You can be an idiot, like you are, but don't insult everyone else on this blog with your stupidity.
"A government is supposed to be answerable to the nation and this regime does not have the ability nor legitimacy to govern. The IRI is corrupt in every sense."
Riighht....last I checked, they were elected, and there are people who vote in Iran for every level of government, from local leaders to national leaders. so your whole ignoring the fact thing, yeh dude, its not working. Go post your talking points somewhere else.
"Your regime is scared of losing its absolute power - you know it, I know it and the world knows it."
Absolute power? There are elections in Iran jackass. What the fuck are you talking about?
"It might take some more time but eventually every dictatorship fails."
You're right, too bad Iran is not a dictatorship, and the current president will not be able to run for another term. To bad for you asshole.
When have I ever gloated at the battering of the people? People who break the law, cause unrest have to be dealt with according to the law. that is what happened in Iran, and in every country with laws. You can rant and rave all you want asshole, but you're still in the minority, and you're still an idiot who denies facts because they don't suit your stupid argument.
And for the record, who ever said I was a basiji? What the hell are you talking about? Seriously, get lost kid, people like you are a dime a dozen, internet tough guys who curse and scream, but don't know shit about Iran.
Fuck you and your mother.
nice of you to dodge the question I asked. Go ahead and give me some sources, hell give us all some sources for your claim that Khomeine was paid $65million by the US and UK befor coming to Iran.
Which bank did they deoposit this money in?
SZ writes: "Absolute power? There are elections in Iran jackass. What the fuck are you talking about?" And "[...] Iran is not a dictatorship..."
Thus SZ, who in his final comment on an earlier thread, the May 9th post entitled "Five Iranians Executed This Morning," stated that, and I quote, "The only person who I can say on this blog who is truly a secularist, is Potkin," thereby informing me that after all these years I have finally found God -- O thank you SZ! -- now SZ uses the same intellectual ability to tell us that the IR is not a dictatorship, so we need not oppose it. First God; now peace of mind. What will he, she, they or it give us next?
If only we could inform those millions of Iranians who have been getting themselves beaten, stabbed, tortured, raped and murdered demanding democracy, that they already have it!
Not to mention the factory workers protesting no pay for six months. How can we let them know they have in fact been paid?
How do we inform those silly teachers’ union members that their leaders were not jailed and executed? Or the pesky Kurds, who staged a general strike under the illusion that the IR executed five men and women for the crime of Kurdish nationalism?
And what about the bus union members who mistakenly think their leader is going on three (or is it four) years of intermittent torture in jail for daring organize a union? Or the Tehran University students who suffer a mass delusion that their colleagues were dragged from their dorms and murdered, with the bodies dumped in a pile on a campus walkway, on the evening of June 14th?
Also, since SZ has opened my eyes, perhaps he will also help me with some facts, so I won't have to, you know, use talking points. Please, SZ, so I can effectively argue against all those delusional folks, tell me, where in the IR constitution does is state that sovereignty resides in the people? And please, also, where does it affirm inalienable rights, with which the government cannot interfere – you know, like the right to protest, equal rights of men and women, the right to organize (e.g. for workers), freedom to speak and publish and distribute one's views, and the like?
I’d greatly appreciate it.
Oops, I didn't realize that Neda had answered an earlier comment by SZ with some of the same arguments I just used.
Well, the truth is not diminished by repetition. And my questions to SZ remain.
"When have I ever gloated at the battering of the people? People who break the law, cause unrest have to be dealt with according to the law. that is what happened in Iran, and in every country with laws. You can rant and rave all you want asshole, but you're still in the minority, and you're still an idiot who denies facts because they don't suit your stupid argument."
You are incredibly narrow-minded SZ jan.
Who makes the law in Iran? Majlis? Who is directly elected by the people? NO, they do not, and they are not.
That's right - there's another body of clerics of which half are appointed by "God's representative on Earth." LOL
So if I'm to understand this correctly, you are defending the laws of some schmuck system that apparently has forgotten that we're in the 21st century and that the whole "my power comes from God scam" lost its effectiveness along with the Musket in the 16th century.
But here's my point (in Dr. M.L. King's words) about your claim to legality and whatnot:
"Let us consider a more concrete example of just and unjust laws...A law is unjust if it is inflicted on a MINORITY that, as a result of being denied the right to vote, had no part in enacting or devising the law....I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law.
We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was "legal" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was "illegal." It was "illegal" to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler's Germany..."
So really, if any of that got through to you then you should do yourself the favor of shutting the fuck up and not repeating arguments that you yourself have admitted are hollow (don't make me find the link in which you admitted that the elections system is inherently flawed in Iran because they screen candidates - don't make me find the link in which your theory of "minorities and dissidents" was eviscerated (and you humbly admitted it) by hard facts and impervious logic, courtesy of Barmakid.
So seriously, if you keep referring to the elections as legitimate (even though you yourself admitted their illegitimacy) then, well, you just make yourself seem like an idiot of "Winstonian" proportions. LOL (like that one? I did :))
Furthermore, your entire reply to Amir was a huge cop-out.
You said: "What you just described, Iranians do want, and for the most part, our government, and our people are working toward that everyday. Iran is much further ahead on all those issues than we were after the war ended in 1989. And with all the sanctions on us, we are doing a reasonably good job. Can we do better, sure, but each government has its challenges. Thank God we have elections unlike other Middle Eastern nations."
Come on man, seriously? First of all, sanctions have nothing to do with freedom of the press and the other issues Amir mentioned. In fact, just as you ask people to provide evidence give me some evidence that the IRI is working toward freedom of the press and the other issues Amir brought up. Please, if there's evidence I would like to be privy to it.
And here's a heads up buddy, we do not have the most freedoms in the Middle East nor are we the only country in the ME with elections. Remember that country that your leaders trip over themselves everyday to criticize? What was it called....oh yea, ISRAEL.
And then there's Turkey of course.
You go on to say, in response to Amir's charge that all dictatorships eventually fail:
"You're right, too bad Iran is not a dictatorship, and the current president will not be able to run for another term. To bad for you asshole."
Fuckin-A you are retarded bro. If you are going to defend the IRI then please, try to understand the system you are defending. Arash was not referring to Ahmadinejad you moron - he's referring to Khamenei (who has been in power for 20yrs now).
But I guess technically he isn't a dictator though. We should give him the respect of acknowledging him by his true role as "God's Representative on Earth." LOL That makes me laugh every time I say it.
Anyways, I guess your own words are a suitable ending to this post:
You can rant and rave all you want asshole...but you're still an idiot who denies facts because they don't suit your stupid argument.
P.S. "We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed." MLK
first of all, nice of you to dodge posts on previous blog posts. After you post something which is refuted, you conveniently move to the next blog entry. very manly of you.
"If only we could inform those millions of Iranians who have been getting themselves beaten, stabbed, tortured, raped and murdered demanding democracy, that they already have it!"
The essense of democracy is that you participate in elections and accept the result. When these very same reformists in Iran voted for Khatami, who by all account was a moderate who instituted some needed changes in Iranian society,ad won the elections, you didn't see people in the streets rioting and looting and causing civil unrest. They accepted the results, and prepared themselves for the next election.
"Not to mention the factory workers protesting no pay for six months. How can we let them know they have in fact been paid?"
source please. If you are going to post nonsense about Iran, then please provide your sources. I was just in Iran last month, and things are not remotely like they are portrayed to be here. People like you and others on this blog don't like the current Iranian government because it doesnt serve your perceived interests.
"Or the pesky Kurds, who staged a general strike under the illusion that the IR executed five men and women for the crime of Kurdish nationalism?"
Yes, let's give the Kurds their own country. Let's carve up Iran, and give part of it to the Kurds, to the other minorities. To you, its perfectly reasonable, to Iranians however, its not, Kurdestan has been part of Iran for thousands of years, and will remain that way.
Just like me saying...let the Native Americans in Oklahoma have their independence and own country.
"where in the IR constitution does is state that sovereignty resides in the people? And please, also, where does it affirm inalienable rights, with which the government cannot interfere – you know, like the right to protest, equal rights of men and women, the right to organize (e.g. for workers), freedom to speak and publish and distribute one's views, and the like?"
If you just do a quick google search on it, you would know. Chapter 3, Articles 19-42 of the Iranian constitution would clarify that for you. I can tell you, that you probably will come back and say that it is a bogus constitution and that Iran is corrupt and therefore the constitution is null and void.
Just like all people of your kind and type, you don't accept anythng that isn't exactly in accordance with your definition of morality, or justice. The truth is however, Iran is not even close to being like you define it.
The majlis in Iran is called the legislative branch. It works in concert with the guardian council of which 6 of the 12 members are selected by the majlis, and 6 are appointed by the Supreme Leader.
Those two bodies do make laws and legislations.
Furthermore, I never said that the elections in Iran were or are illegitimate. I simply said that they are flawed, and that candidates should not be screened before they can run for office. That part of it is flawed, and I would like to see that changed, but the elections themselves are fine.
"First of all, sanctions have nothing to do with freedom of the press and the other issues Amir mentioned."
There is freedom of press, and inciting the downfall of a government. Iran has been a country under constant threat of attack for 30 years, in fact since the revolution. There are people like the MEK, and Kurds who would want Iran to collapse. There are a multitude of newspapers in Iran, but some, who advocate the downfall of the regime, or call for removal of certain people in the government have been shut down. I may not agree with that all the time, but i certainly see their point.
The IRI has it written in its constitution that there shall be freedom of the press, but the difference today is that there are over 40 different dissident channels being fed to Iran through the airwaves. Those represent a direct threat to Iran. Therefore, when the country is in a state of "war", things get restricted.
Who ever said we were the ONLY one in the ME to have elections? I said we have elections. So what do I care if Israel has elections? That's not my country. Turkey has elections as well, great for them. But the MAJORITY of countries in the Middle East do not. That is simply what I was saying. And to say that Iran is a dictatorship is simply idiotic.
"Arash was not referring to Ahmadinejad you moron - he's referring to Khamenei (who has been in power for 20yrs now)."
Wait a minute, Khamenei is the Supreme Leader, this is how Iran's system is set in place. Iranians if you remember had a revolution to change the old system, and usher in this system. You can scream up and down that he is a dictator, but I disagree. Khamenei actually doesn't involve himself to much in politics, he tries to stay above the fray.
I think the biggest problem with Iran you and others on this site have is that it's not like the US or Europe for that matter. Iran's system is unique and to some, different. But to say it is wrong in my point of view is arrogant.
You can mock the fact that Iranians by and large are religious, and that they believe in God. You can mock that Khamenei believes in God or that he says he is the highest form of religion on earth. But the truth is, Iranians don't care about what the west thinks. Secular societies in the west ironically enough are just as religious as Iranians are.
You may not be religious, and that's fine, but the way you mock God and by extension people who believe in God and by extension Iran tells me you are arrogant in your views. It makes sense that if Iran's government was founded by a Cleric, that it would be a religious system today, and that a Cleric would be the Supreme Leader. What else did you expect?
You can disagree with the system, but your obvious hatred for anything God makes it clear to see, that you won't be happy with Iran's government unless they become completely secular like the West, and that will never happen.
SZ you fucking inbred - learn a lesson from history and James Bond - NEVER say NEVER.
I wish I had enough time to respond to the majority of your bullshit. Jared, Barmakid & Neda have made some great points to counter your nonsense. I just can't stretch enough time at the moment to give you mine.
I do want to say this before I go, of all the bullshit you come out with this really is a classic in regards to freedom of press.
"There are a multitude of newspapers in Iran, but some, who advocate the downfall of the regime, or call for removal of certain people in the government have been shut down."
Sorry where is the freedom of press again? So if you don't exercise your own opinion - you can run a newspaper but if you a express an opinion that counters the regime line then you get shut down?? I mean your arguments are full of these oxymorons.
It's no wonder I keep calling you moron.
You're the moron, you fucking cunt. Keep yelling and screaming you paper tiger.
and with regards to my point about newspapers and the freedom of press in Iran....it exists. you can talk about whatever you want in Iran. You just can't openly advocate for the overthrow of the government, or talk about threatening public officials.
Do me a favor you fucking inbred, go out on the street and start yelling you want to kill the US president....when the cops arrest your dumbass, tell them its your freedom of speech. Better yet,go publish a blob about killing US government officials, or the British Prime minister. Let's see how long you stay out of jail.
That's the fucking point you jackass. There is freedom of press in Iran, just within some logical bounds.
Go fuck yourself.
ps. next time, its better not to base your life on quotes from James Bond! hahahaha..fucking jackass.
I am not mocking people who believe in God (my whole family is Muslim), I am mocking people who actually think Khamenei is "God's representative on Earth."
That's what I'm mocking; the fact that some people can be so retarded as to believe that. Which is why I said:
"[It's] a system that apparently has forgotten that we're in the 21st century and that the whole "my power comes from God scam" lost its effectiveness along with the Musket in the 16th century."
And dude, that whole little explanation about freedom of the press was laughable. Seriously? You contradicted the shit out of yourself!
And further yet, you have given me NO evidence. NONE.
Everything you're saying sounds like ill-advised.... TALKING POINTS.
You shouldn't ask other people for evidence if you can't provide any yourself.
And then you go on to say even more mind-blowing nonsense like KHamenei isn't a dictator he is the Supreme leader, "that's the way it was setup."
Not Really. That's the way it was set up by one lot of people, i.e. Khomeini and Co.
And I swear to God's Representative on Earth, if you cite that piece of shit referendum in which people were asked do you want the Shah or an Islamic Republic I will.... well, I won't do anything. But for your own integrity, don't cite flawed evidence.
That referendum is like asking people during the American Revolution do you want the British Monarchy or Socialism. They would have picked socialism. Get it?
So, Velayet Faqih was the system Iranians set in place and "to say that Iran is a dictatorship is simply idiotic" is what you're saying, right?
Aside from the exceptional evidence you sighted (LOL), take the words of Khomeini's OWN pick to head the provisional government after Bakhtiar was kicked out,
"With the help of numerous details and arguments, we have examined the velayet-e faqih from every side, in its rational-political aspects and from the angle of the Quran Islamic tradition, and Islamic law, and we must judge it as 100% destructive. From a political point of view, the Velayet- Faqih is DESPOTISM and means a REGRESSION BACK TO THE STATE WE HAD HOPED TO OVERCOME WITH THE ISLAMIC REVOLUTION...."
- Mehdi Bazargan.
So SZ, nothing about my points on legality? Nothing about my point of being a minority? No response? I'll take that as tacit admission of defeat.
And as far as Israel, my point is that if such a criminal state can offer its citizens such rights and freedom, then you shouldn't be comparing Iran to ANY country in the ME until it can give its citizens the same life as is arch enemy.
Turkey is more democratic.
Israeli is more democratic.
KUWAIT is more democratic.
Who are you comparing us to then, Iraq? Afghanistan? Saudi? Yemen? Oman?
LOL. Get out of town Homie. Like I said, the ME is not a standard of comparison.
AS for elections, when candidates are screened the elections aren't flawed. They are RIGGED. Get it?
Who gives a shit if the results are legitimate, but the candidates were all pre-approved by the Gaurdian Council.
Nothing you have said makes sense or is logically defensible.
1. Iran Is a religious dictatorship and you have failed to prove otherwise. (saying that's the way it was setup is not proof or an argument - it's idiotic.)
2. Elections are rigged (even before election results) and you have failed to prove otherwise.
3. There is no freedom of the press or any fundamental human rights in Iran or any progress toward such a goal - and you have failed to prove otherwise
4. You are a blithering idiot who doesn't know how to argue cogently and likes to prey on weak minded opponents - This you actually proved quite well. Congrats.
Also, Amir -I referred to you as Arash a few times in my last post - I meant Amir.
I'm busy writing other stuff, so I'll limit myself to two key points:
1) Anything that disempowers ordinary people guarantees corruption. Vilayat-e faqih, under which, as authorized by the IR constitution, God is sovereign and everyone must submit to him -- Allah has "exclusive sovereignty and the right to legislate," and everyone has "the necessity of submission to His commands" (constitution, Art. 2, paragraph 1) and under which the so-called rahbar (Khamenei) is God's voice on earth, who, according to the constitution, has the power to effect or undo any governmental action (e.g., he can fire the president if the supreme court, appointed by the top judicial offical who is appointed and can be removed by the rahbar, so rules -- this system guarantees that elections will be window dressing and that corruption will grow like a weed amongst the rahbar's power base, in which every appointee is entirely beholden to him for their livlihoods, not to mention their ability to stay out of jail, or worse.
Popular sovereignty can be authorized by a constitution but undermined in practice; everyone knows that. But if it is vetoed right in the constitution - as with the IR constitution - forget it.
2) SZ would like the issue to be Islam vs. atheism. That is NOT the issue.
Obviously, many who are rebelling are deeply religious.
In my opinion, one great contribution the Iranian people have made is to expose the falsity of the argument, deeply entrenched in Western thinking, according to which one must either say that Islamic extremism is bad, and therefore we must oppose all Muslims, or, on the other side, one can say that since all Muslims are the same, we must cater to Islamic extremists to befriend Muslims.
That argument is a lie. The iranian people have shown that it is the residents of Muslim countries who are the biggest victims of Islamic extremism. It is the fear of the great Western powers that this rebellion will undermine their attempt to confine political disagreement to where one stands in the phony Clash of Civilizations.
One can be a Muslim without believing in the EARTHLY rule of a fanatical, ruthless, political Neanderthal of a despot, who imports like minded fanatics from Gaza and Lebanon to murder 'his' [sic!] people.
Indeed, one can shout, in one breath, "Allah Akbar," and in the next "Marg bar Khamenei."
And that is the music of the Gods.
Khamenie's bank account was not filled with millions of dollars for nothing. At the outset the deal was that the regime would work with the West and put an end to the demands the Shah was beginning to make.
The demand that Iranian oil should not be exploited by long-term, prejudicial contracts,which left Iran with very little.
Khamenei was brought back to Iran by the French airline, flanked with and 100 European and foreign journalists, (whom Khamenei now calls "enemies"!!!; Khamenei who up till then was more concerned with which foot he should put forward first when he goes to the toilet, (according to his own book), was now the leader of a great country.
The Islamic Republic has been a servant ever since. To make sure they stay in power, they have to serve the interests of the West by ensuring that a large portion of the oil revenues are returned to the West.
This is done in a number of ways: The main one is by importing masses of products from the West and flooding the Iranian market with goods purchased from all over the place; a policy which has left the domestic Iranian industry in tatters. Nasajiye Mazandaran, a thriving textile industry during the previous regime, is now totally destroyed.
The other main way of siphoning money back to the West is by donating billions of dollars to "charities" and "cultural" organisations established in the West, and which are fronts for Islamic Regime propaganda. This money is given to European and American universities, charities and other organisations to promote the Islamic Republic and buy support.
Examples such as Khamenei's office in Maida Vale, Press TV, Ayatollah Shirazi's office in London and so on. These are registered charities which have brought in millions of pounds into European and American cities; some set up funds in universities, some are set up to spread propaganda and to spy on the Iranian expat community. That's why Ahmadinejad is giving out prizes to academics. Where is all this money coming from?
Uk universities are so desperate for cash, they don't really care where the money comes from. Some of the funds go to Iranian mozdoor and corrupt academics who get perks like family tickets to Iran once a year and get given gifts and money when they are there.
The European universities are getting the cash (Durham, UCL etc) at a time when funding for Iranian universities has been slashed, old established academics have been sacked and replaced by the illiterate ranks of the baseej or the clergy, after having been approved by the head of the Sepah Pasdaran, the military. Thousands of innocent Iranian students have been banned from continuing their education and hundreds are still in detention and under severe conditions.
One other major benefit for the West is playing off the Islamic Republic against the Arab nations, creating instability in the region and convincing the Arab nations that they should invest in massive military and security measures to protect themselves against this loose cannon, Ahmadinejad. Never before have the Arab nations been so close to the Americans and the Europeans (according to the British Ambassador in Washington).
The West have done a good job with the Islamic Republic formula. Machiavelli would be proud.
Those idiots who think the Islamic Republic is an independent regime are deceiving themselves at best. The Islamic Regime has been clearly serving the interests of its masters, that's why it's still there. Therefore all those who work for the Islamic regime are nokar va mozdoor, helping the West achieve its aims by repressing the Iranian people's legitimate rights.
However it is up to the Iranian people to put an end to this and they will. Victory is staring us in the face and we only have to reach out and grab it.
Once again you distort the facts.
"I am mocking people who actually think Khamenei is "God's representative on Earth."
Ok, great, I doubt many people actually still believe that. If you had gone to Iran, you would know that.
Your definition of freedom of the press is based on the standard western secular model. I am not discounting that. What I am telling you is that that's not what Iran has, or necessarily wants. When you have enemies who are spreading propaganda against your country day and night, I think its appropriate to limit the press to a certain extent. I don't necessarily think its advisable, but I can see the reason for it.
FYI, evidence given by me is not the issue. The burden of proof is on the accuser. I can't prove to you that the Iranian constitution is fair, or just. This is because you hold a different set of moral beliefs and different set of values.
"You shouldn't ask other people for evidence if you can't provide any yourself."
Once again, if someone is accusing you of doing something, or believing somethng, they must prove you did it, not the other way around. I can't prove that the elections were NOT rigged. You on the other hand, if you believe they were, must prove so to me.
"Not Really. That's the way it was set up by one lot of people, i.e. Khomeini and Co."
YES! exactly, because they won the revolution, they overthrew the old regime (with popular support mind you) and then got to decide what kind of new government to set up. What did you want them to do? Every revolution, the victor decides the course of action after victory.
Your whole analogy about picking the lesser of two evils is BS. when given a choice, between ANY two systems, people will always choose the lesser of two evils. Just because the choice you wanted is not included doesn't mean you have to discount other people's selections. You're essentially saying that just because someone picks a choice you don't think is optimal, then their choice is null and void.
You also post a quote by Bazargan...great. Good quote. He believed it, some don't. What's your point? You want me to admit Iran's system is not optimal? Done. But what I won't admit is that Iranians want a secular non religious democracy like they have in the west, because its not true. You have no evidence to the contrary. You cite an influential person, who was an idealist, a utopian intellectual...and claim he represents all of Iran. Or just because he was more moderate than Khomeini, you claim he was right. I disagree with that.
"So SZ, nothing about my points on legality? Nothing about my point of being a minority? No response? I'll take that as tacit admission of defeat."
I don't even know what you're talking about here, maybe I missed those points, but I don't admit defeat to the likes of you. living in Houston, shit talking the very country you're from when most likely you've never been there to experience how Iran really is.
"KUWAIT is more democratic."
Yes, a country who has an Emir who is essentially the king, who didn't allow women to vote until 2005 is more democratic than Iran where women have voted for decades, and where the Supreme Leader is not a hereditary title.
Like I said, in your hatred of all things in Iranian politics and government, you will go as far as to say that a country like Kuwait is more democratic. Hey, no problem, go ahead, but if you said that in Iran, people would laugh at you!
Let me guess, next you'll talk about Egypts great democratic system!
"Who are you comparing us to then, Iraq? Afghanistan? Saudi? Yemen? Oman?"
Actually, try more like Pakistan, Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Saudi, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Oman, Kuwait, UAE, Qatar, Afghanistan. Every country in the Middle East, except for Turkey and Israel. You can laugh at that, and say for me to "get out of town"....but reality doesn't change.
"LOL. Get out of town Homie. Like I said, the ME is not a standard of comparison."
Hahaha..nope, you want Iran to be like the US, or maybe like Europe. We in Iran don't want to be like our enemies and the very people who have interfered in our politics for 50 years!
"AS for elections, when candidates are screened the elections aren't flawed. They are RIGGED. Get it?"
WRONG! you are using false causational logic to prove your point. If there are let's say 100 candidates, and only 10 are allowed to run based on a universal standard applied evenly to all 100, and those 10 are voted on by the public in a fair method...how is the complete election rigged? At best, its flawed, because it is reasonable to say that people who were not allowed to run would have garnered votes, and thereby you are limiting the democratic process, but by no means is it rigged.
"1. Iran Is a religious dictatorship and you have failed to prove otherwise. (saying that's the way it was setup is not proof or an argument - it's idiotic.)"
For the last time jackass, if you think Kuwait...who has an Emir (which is HEREDITARY) is Democratic....then by extension you have to think Iran is democratic where the Supreme Leader is NOT hereditary, and suffrage is actually universal, and people actually partake in the election process! Like I said before, you hate Iran's political system, so you are inherently biased against it.
"2. Elections are rigged (even before election results) and you have failed to prove otherwise."
This one is hilarious, you actually believe that. Read what I wrote about this before. You're using false logic to prove a conclusion you have already reached. You're working backwards from your conclusion to make an accusation. you're an idiot.
"3. There is no freedom of the press or any fundamental human rights in Iran or any progress toward such a goal - and you have failed to prove otherwise"
Again, if you bothered to read the Iranian Constitution, you would know that's a laughable statement. Chapter 3 article 19-42. Read it. We get it dude, you hate Iran, you don't have to foam at the mouth!
"4. You are a blithering idiot who doesn't know how to argue cogently and likes to prey on weak minded opponents - This you actually proved quite well. Congrats."
This coming from a guy who thinks Kuwait is more democratic than Iran, and who thinks all elections are rigged, without exception if ANY of the participants are weeded out. Yep, you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer. This is the problem with Iranians abroad, you don't know Iran, you don't know Iranians. You live in a bubble with Iranian expats who all share the hatred of Iran, and the think you represent the majority and that your views are perfectly logical!
How can I talk about democracy with someone who thinks that freedom of the press means to censor the press? LOL
So you have no evidence?
This fuckin guy thinks just because there are elections he lives in a democracy. LOL
You dumb fuck - when you weed out candidates the election is RIGGED.
Nothin you have said makes sense SZ. Nothing.
You have provided NO EVIDENCE.
You say the IRI has freedom of the press and then right after that give a rationalization as to why they shut down newspapers.
hahahahaha Where did you get your education, the ISlamic Republic? LOL
How can I take you seriously when you are defending a man that calls himself "God's Representative on Earth."
And I'm not an expat buddy.
And yes, YOUR DAMN RIGHT I WANT IRAN TO BE MORE LIKE THE U.S.
If that means women won't get stoned for committing adultery, you're damn right I do.
If that means freedom of assembly, speech, and religion, you're damn right I do.
If that means you don't get executed publicly for being gay at the age of 18, you're damn right I do.
If that means elections aren't some cleverly devised method to keep the regime in power, you're damn right I do.
If that means our leader doesn't think he's "God's Representative on Earth," (LOL) you're damn right I do.
If that means my people can travel freely throughout the world, you're damn right I do.
If that means every male doesn't have to serve in the military and can choose to live his life out as he pleases, you're damn right I do.
I might not be the "sharpest knife in the drawer," but at least I'm not a motha fuckin SPOON like you. LOL
Again, back to your freedom of the press example - it blows me away how you can challenge my logic after that display.
So if you wanna do this "You're-a Iran-hater-and-want-us-to-be-more like-the-US" we can do that.
I am a US citizen with a US passport who can travel around the world with it. What can you do with your piece of shit Islamic Republic passport? Apply for visas for the rest of your life?
But you have one thing to look forward to, the return of the hidden Imam!!
We have been searching for this motha fucka for centuries, but I feel pretty confident about Khamenei holdin it down until the Occulted One reveals himself. LOL
This is what your government tells you. While you call basic civil rights and fundamental human rights "being more like the US" and then somehow start choking over terms you know nothing about, like "vassal state."
As long as you believe in this Hocus Pocus everything you say is a joke to me.
WE get it dude, you hate the U.S.!
And as far as Kuwait: You Dumb Fuck, that's my point.
That a country like Kuwait is more "democratic" than Iran. Clearly you don't believe me, so here are some other sources for your incredibly ignorant and uninformed ass:
You don't have to use that source, you can find others in which KUWAIT CONSISTENTLY RECEIVES HIGHER RATINGS THAN IRAN IN EVERY SINGLE REPORT.
Now, had you had the intelligence to discuss democracy in depth, I would have done so and explained to you how Kuwait is more democratic.
But you don't; you CLEARLY don't even know what Freedom of the Press means. LOL
And you clearly don't know how screening candidates for religious credentials and revolutionary ideals PRECLUDES THE EFFECTIVENESS AND PURITY OF DEMOCRATIC ELECTIONs.
Thus, all I can do is laugh in your face since you are supporting a government led by someone who thinks he is, "God's Representative on Earth." HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
"Democracy and freedom remain the least rooted in the Middle East's 14 countries. Israel is the only country rated Free (7 percent). Three states--Turkey, Jordan, and KUWAIT--are Partly Free (21 percent), and 10 are Not Free (71 percent). Israel and Turkey are the only electoral democracies (14 percent of the country total) in the region."
See that SZ, Kuwait is grouped with Turkey! But Iran....
hala keh aberooto bordam chi? LOL
After all that ranting and raving about Kuwait and you end up looking like the idiot you are.
Neda wrote that the West gains economically from exploitation of Iran, and that it gains politically in that "Never before have the Arab nations been so close to the Americans and the Europeans (according to the British Ambassador in Washington."
The question is, WHY?
Why are the Arab states drawing closer to the US and the West? And why now?
Supporting Khomeini against Bakhtiar was part of Carter strategist Brzezinski’s plan to use Islamism against radical secular forces, whether nationalist reformers, leftists or independent mass organizations.
The idea was, why oppose change? Why not *promote* clerical fascist change?
It is like judo: have agents who use popular anger (and the political confusion, stupidity and treachery of some leftists and nationalists) to bring Islamists to power. Of course, have the Islamists publicly denounce imperialism. It makes them seem credible.
Why are the Arab states that the IR opposes now drawing closer to the West? Because they are weak and don't know who else to appeal to in the face of what they see has been happening, namely the West empowering the IR.
Arab intelligence services see Western intelligence aiding some Islamic terrorists who want to overthrow the Arab regimes.
They see the West multiplying the IR's regional influence by involving it in the so-called 'rebuilding' of Afghanistan.
And they are fully aware that the ONLY rational purpose for invading Iraq was to remove the main force hindering Khamenei. They see, as clear as the noses on their faces, that the West has brought pro-IR forces to power in Iraq
(I understand that Saddam Hussein was a monster, and that Iranians have especially good reasons to loathe him -– but it is important in analyzing geopolitics to move beyond understandable passions. Besides being a fascist, which he was, Hussein played a regional balancing role. By removing the Baathist monster, the West has unleashed the IR monsters.)
In the early stages of the Iraq invasion, I posted evidence that, contrary to what was being said in the media, the IR was in fact helping the invaders. See
I have evidence, not yet posted, that IR officials and media supported a YES vote for the Islamist Iraqi constitution, whose creation was overseen by Brzezinski protégé and top US strategist for Afghanistan and Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad.
Ahmadinejad's current criticisms of the Iraq invasion are demagoguery – a cheap stunt to lend him credibility as an anti-imperialist. He knows full well that the only force that gained –- or COULD POSSIBLY have gained -- from the US invasion of Iraq was the IR leadership. (As I said before the invasion.)
The current Western passion for negotiation with IR leaders is a further example of their efforts to make the IR the leader of a worldwide front of third world and former communist states, a convenient way to guarantee that progressive nationalist and independent socialist forces in these states are stymied and destroyed, which no power can do better than Islamists. A world social-fascist front. Some socialist rhetoric. Lots of fascist practices.
The immediate economic gains that Western companies make from Iran do great harm to the Iranian economy and Iranians. This shows the falsity of the IR leaders' claims that they are proud nationalists who love the people, and similar baloney.
I do not trivialize these abuses. But the stakes involved in the post 1979 strategy of empowering Islamism are far broader than the stakes involved in Iran in 1953, when the Western coup was mainly an attempt to crush economic nationalism.
The stakes in the Brzezinski strategy of using the IR to lead a fake-anti-imperialist but authentically fascist so-called 'opposition' to the West are the nightmarish control of most of the world.
The Iranians fighting to overthrow this system are fighting for nothing less than the future of the world.
And SZ, for your information - Even though I am most likely half your age (not that it matters to me, but for arrogant people like you it does) I have spent more then half my life in Iran; Shiraz to be precise.
SO GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU UNINFORMED FUCK.
And since you failed to respond to my points about legality and instead said, "what points?" I am going to go ahead and chalk that up to not having enough knowledge to respond to me. Or is it because you know you have lost any and every argument you have ever had with me?
You Fuckin Cult member. How many times have you said "fadahye rahbar?"
I live in Houston, you get a visa to come to my town - come meet me up you "paper tiger." Or are you scared? bak bak bak bak (those are chicken sounds by the way) LOL
Oh here we are another Ahmadinejad, son of a Sepahi or basiji, harping on "Iran is a democracy, we have elections, Iranians love this regime, we have laws, those who were punished broke the law..........Blah., blah, blah............."
What a load of garbage, Do you honestly believe anyone is actually listening or interested in all these lies? You could have got away with this before June 2009, but now, come on.......
You know so much about the law in Iran SZ, can you tell me which law did Majid Tavakili break? Come on now we would like to know the specific law you are referring to.
As you rightly said Potkin actually allows you to adorn his blog with your comments, can you tell us if any of us would be allowed to say anything against the IR inside Iran? We would be in solitary confinement at best. But you come here freely and continue to talk crap.
you hypocrite, just like Ahmadi and Khamenei, you can't help yourself, lying and treachery is in your blood. Can you tell me about the laws you know so much about? What specific law did Osanloo break for which he has been in jail for years? What laws have the teachers and university lecturers broken? Come on explain. why are basijis and plain clothes men standing at every street corner finding some excuse for harassing and arresting people? So much for democracy.
And how have you come to the conclusion that Iranians actually want this murderous regime? Have you asked them personally? Has there been a free and democratic referendum on the subject which we have missed? Is this garbage that you are writing coming from some deranged mind who is living in a fantasy world? Have you not heard about the hundreds who have been executed?
If the IR has such good laws, which law does it state that you can rape people who are held in detention? ummmmmm I don't think you will find such a law. If not, have any of those who have committed these crimes brought to justice by the courts?
Have you not heard a senior member of the Supreme Court who said just before leaving his post that the judges are powerless as all decisions for sentencing of cases are decreed by Khamenie's office?
In the IR there are not laws; but THE LAW, Khamenei's law. If you don't like it, get the hell out, or go to prison.
There will come a day soon, when treacherous people like you and your Sepahi daddy, will be brought to justice in a real court, with a real judge. You will be sentenced for the crimes you have committed against the good people of Iran.
Meanwhile, continue in your world of make believe, a mafia web of lies, betrayal and murder. Don't sleep too easy though, time is ticking, you will get caught soon enough. All the crimes are documented and there are mountains of evidence. The West will keep you as its lackey and servants for a little longer until you pass the sell by date and the people of Iran are biding their time to erase you for ever from their land.
Neda wrote that the West gains economically from exploitation of Iran, and that it gains politically in that “Never before have the Arab nations been so close to the Americans and the Europeans (according to the British Ambassador in Washington.”
The question is, why? Why are the Arab states the drawing closer to the US and the West? And why now?
Supporting Khomeini against Bakhtiar was part of Carter strategist Brzezinski’s plan for using Islamism against radical secular forces, whether nationalist reformers, leftists or unaffiliated mass organizations.
The idea was, rather than trying to prevent change, use a variation on the British Empire’s ‘indirect rule,’ promoting clerical fascist ‘change.’ It is like judo: have agents use popular anger (as well as the political confusion, stupidity and treachery of some leftists and nationalists) to bring Islamists to power. Then have the Islamists denounce imperialism.
Some Arab states are drawing closer to the West because a) they are weak and b) they don’t know who else to appeal to, given that they see the West empowering the IR.
Arab intelligence services know that Western intelligence agencies are aiding some Islamic terrorists trying to overthrow Arab regimes. They see the West magnifying IR regional influence by involving it in so-called ‘rebuilding’ of Afghanistan.
And they know that the ONLY possible purpose for invading Iraq and removing the Baathists was to empower Khamenei. They are not surprised that the West has brought pro-IR forces, not secular-leaning politicians, to power in Iraq
(I understand that Hussein was a monster, and that Iranians have good reasons to loathe him – but it is important in analyzing geopolitics to move beyond understandable passions. Besides being fascists, the Iraqi Baathists were a balance to the IR. The West didn’t remove the Baathists because the West hates monsters – indeed, the US installed Hussein in the first place! The West removed Hussein to unleash the IR.)
In the early stages of the Iraq invasion, I posted evidence that, contrary to the Western media, the IR was helping the invaders.
I have evidence, not yet posted, that the IR supported a YES vote for the Islamist Iraqi constitution, which was written under Brzezinski protégé and top US strategist Zalmay Khalilzad.
Ahmadinejad’s current criticisms of the Iraq invasion are demagoguery – a cheap stunt to make him look anti-imperialist. He knows full well that the only force that gained – that COULD have gained -- from the US invasion was the IR. (And by the way I said this before the invasion.) http://emperors-clothes.com/iraq-iran.htm
The current Western push for negotiations with IR leaders is intended to divert from post-June repression and give the IR leadership of a worldwide front of third world and former communist states, in order to guarantee that progressive nationalist and independent socialist forces in these states are crushed. Nobody can do that better than Islamists. As part of the pro-Islamist strategy, the US promoted Erdoğan to be PM of Turkey.
So: a worldwide, social-fascist front. Some socialist rhetoric. Much fascist practice.
Iran’s exploited and distorting relations with Western companies’ do great harm to the Iranian people, helping only the Bonyads and Revolutionary Guards, which do plenty of exploiting/distorting on their own. Cruel oppression of workers and economic misdevelopment give the lie to the IR leaders’ claims to be proud nationalists who love the people.
But the stakes involved in the post 1979 strategy of empowering Islamism go beyond the terrible harm the IR has done and does to Iranians.
The goal of the Brzezinski strategy of using the IR to lead a fascist, fake-opposition to the West is to enforce a worldwide dark ages, to guarantee that the rich rule, undisturbed.
Therefore, Iranians fighting to overthrow the IR are the defenders of light in the world.
Maybe you are ignorant on purpose, or maybe you're just an idiot because you don't know better.
"How can I talk about democracy with someone who thinks that freedom of the press means to censor the press? LOL"
for the last time idiot, Iran has freedom of the press, it may not be a freedom of the press like the US or like you want, but its nonetheless free.
"You dumb fuck - when you weed out candidates the election is RIGGED."
yep, this is the mind of an Iranian expat....I am not going to argue logic with someone who can't even understand that just because you select candidates based on a standard, and then have elections, the elections are not necessarily rigged.
"How can I take you seriously when you are defending a man that calls himself "God's Representative on Earth."
again, that's our system, just because you hate religion and are Godless, doesn't mean you have to mock others who aren't. Fuck off idiot.
"And yes, YOUR DAMN RIGHT I WANT IRAN TO BE MORE LIKE THE U.S."
Too bad for you, Iranians don't want to be like the US, hence we had a revolution which moved us away from under the US umbrella. Read some history.
"I am a US citizen with a US passport who can travel around the world with it. What can you do with your piece of shit Islamic Republic passport? Apply for visas for the rest of your life?"
Actually, no, I don't apply for Visas, I travel all around the world for my job without issue. I was in Malaysia and Singapore last year. I come to the US even without trouble. I even go to Paris every other month, and sometimes Aberdeen....again, go educate yourself you fucking idiot.
"But you have one thing to look forward to, the return of the hidden Imam!!"
Again stop foaming at the mouth dude, your hatred for religion is obvious. Calm down.
"And as far as Kuwait: You Dumb Fuck, that's my point."
What's your point, that you think Kuwait is more democratic than Iran?? HAHAHAHHAHAHA
"Now, had you had the intelligence to discuss democracy in depth, I would have done so and explained to you how Kuwait is more democratic."
Dude, you're the biggest idiot i've ever talked to. People in Iran would laugh at you. You cite some website who ironically enough says that Jordan is partially free! They have a fucking king and they are partially free!! hahaha...needless to say, your lack of knowledge is amazing and frankly funny. You're an idiot dude, the sooner you realize that, the sooner your parents can enroll you in special ed.
"Thus, all I can do is laugh in your face since you are supporting a government led by someone who thinks he is, "God's Representative on Earth." HAHAHAHAHAHAHA"
again, you hate God and Iran dude, we get it. Use your US passport and go travel the "free world" haha..fucking cunt. you're such an idiot its funny to talk to you.
"hala keh aberooto bordam chi? LOL"
hahahahahahahah..yes, you sure did! (sarcasm off). For the last time, people like you, are worthless and live in a dream world. You read literature that is completely biased against the country you're from. In your case, you're just a traitor and an idiot.
And SZ, for your information - Even though I am most likely half your age (not that it matters to me, but for arrogant people like you it does) I have spent more then half my life in Iran; Shiraz to be precise.
So let's see, I am 28...then you must be 14? No wonder you're a fucking idiot. You say you have spent half your life in Iran....yet you're a US citizen and don't have an Iranian passport...hmm...i smell some BS! hahahaha..you're a fucking idiot.
FUCK YOU AND YOUR WHORE OF A MOTHER.
"And since you failed to respond to my points about legality and instead said, "what points?" I am going to go ahead and chalk that up to not having enough knowledge to respond to me. Or is it because you know you have lost any and every argument you have ever had with me? "
Once again kid, I have more knowledge about the world than you ever could dream of. Fuck off loser. I have lost every argument with you? Really? The fact that you won't accept anything else other than "US is the greatest" and "Iran is the worst"...tells us all we need to know about your kind. You're an idiot, pure and simple. I feel bad for your parents.
You Fuckin Cult member. How many times have you said "fadahye rahbar?"
Actually, none, but you probably have this caricature about iranians because you don't know any better. that's ok dude, stay gay and ignorant.
I live in Houston, you get a visa to come to my town - come meet me up you "paper tiger." Or are you scared? bak bak bak bak (those are chicken sounds by the way) LOL
hmm...I am in Houston right now, ill be here most of the summer, i would love to kick your dumb ass all summer long. Go ahead fag bag, make my day, tell me where to meet you, i will gladly go and kick your ass.
(I think this failed to post. If it is posted twice, my apologies.)
In my last comment, posted just before SZ's last two episodes in the SZ-Barmakid dog and pony show (there may be more episodes by now!), wherein Tweedledee and Tweedledum combine non-stop raving obscenities (to turn people off from reading *serious* comments) with a staged "debate" aimed at forcing us to choose between supporting the IR or supporting the US --
In my last comment, in discussing why some Arab countries seem to be drawing closer to the West, in fear of IR extremism, I don't think I made one key point clear.
The West's long-term goal is not, I think, to get all Arab countries closer to the West.
The goal is to organize the world into a MIRAGE of a bi-polar world, with the IR the vanguard of one of the poles, so that political struggle everywhere is played out as a choice between these supposedly opposite, but really unified, poles.
Now, here is the point: Given that supporting the IR permits Arab and other non-Western ruling classes to pose as anti-imperialist and nationalist, so that they can use demagogic fake-revolutionary rhetoric even as they crush democratic aspirations; and given that there is no cost to supporting the IR in terms of relations with the West -- remember the State Department (as I quoted elsewhere) openly states that the US *WANTS* various countries to engage with Iran -- it is inevitable that some local ruling classes, which fear the IR, will take the expedient course and flirt with IR leaders, and perhaps sooner or later join its Front.
We already see indications with India -- it is attacked by terrorist Islamists, and the next thing we know it is supporting the IR. And there are indications of this among some Arab states as well.
Is this surprising when a) the IR organizes attacks against local Establishments that resist its embrace and b) the West is obviously empowering the IR?
We are witnessing something like what happens when gangsters offer "protection" to businessmen in a city where the government, though screaming about law and order, is in fact managing the gangsters.
The businessmen try to appeal to the government for protection, but when they realize that whatever they say is immediately told to the gangsters, they may accept the gangsters' "offer."
Of course, this process increases the status of the IR, and thereby multiplies its popular support in the very status-conscious Arab world, thus moving the world closer to the dark ages I spoke of in my last post, in which many states, are controlled by IR-allied forces, and where rebellion everywhere -- even rebellion over authentic issues -- is dominated by IR flunkies.
However! This analysis leaves out the popular rebellion in Iran, which is especially stunning because (for non-Iranians) it was so unexpected.
The Iranian rebellion breaks the designated IR-or-US mold, which everyone is supposed to follow.
It attacks the IR pole, while, in its authentic progressive nationalism, it is a REAL opposition to imperial domination.
The rebels have withstood brutal repression at home, as well as the mockery of "support" from Western leaders, who must pretend to want freedom in Iran even as they do everything to lend an appearance of dignity to the IR butchers.
Many outside Iran support the rebels, but alas, so many organizations are in dishonest hands.
The task is to mobilize decent non-Iranians to publicly support the IR rebels and to attack the hypocritical policies of the West. Millions have been deeply affected by the Iranian rebellion. But MUCH MORE must be done to SHOW the rebels that they are not alone.
can I share some of the comments you have made here?
To Neda -- of course you can. Certainly. It would be an honor.
Also, if anyone else finds anything I write useful, please circulate it.
My debating style was wholly inspired by SZ himself on this thread.
This is not my usual style of posting. Check the record, I rarely curse or make unsubstantiated gratuitous personal insults.
But in this case, you have to respond to profane irrationality with the same sentiment.
But as this conversation has sufficiently degenerated, I am withdrawing myself with this final note:
1. The notion that Kuwait consistently receives higher democratic ratings by international organizations was never addressed and simply denied with the childish remark: ""you hate Iran."
It's kind of like saying the sun revolves around the earth (denying all evidence to the contrary) and sticking to subjective perceptions that have no basis in reality.
2. Such immaturity led me to make SZ understand that the IRI has obstructed its citizens from joining the global community, and thus, I had to let SZ know that his IRI passport is so worthless (a reflection of the value of the government and society)that he has to get a Visa to even go to
3. Basically, none of the arguments I made were addressed and they still stand as victorious unless proven otherwise:
a. Kuwait is more democratic than Iran and I have cited my sources.
b. laws must protect minorities and if they don't "breaking those laws is out of the highest respect for the rule of law." And that, "let's not forget that aiding a Jew in Hitler's Germany was 'illegal.'"
And if laws do not protect minorities then the government must surely be recognized not to be democratic.
c. Khamenei is a dictator.
d. Elections are inherently rigged (no matter the results) when candidates are screened for ideological conformity and religious credentials. Can you imagine if Kennedy couldn't run because he was a Catholic? Furthermore, in the case of the IRI these elections are of facade of democracy meant to shield the despotic nature of the IRI's true form of decision making.
Fact of the matter: All the powers that define the nature of a democracy (for ex. the power to wage war) resides in one man.
I'm getting tired of wasting my time on SZ because really, if someone makes such a twisted argument about freedom of the press then they really don't understand the value of it or they simply have decided to eschew rationality and swim in a sea of ideological stubbornness, i.e. they are a cult member. Thus, if my arguments aren't addressed I simply won't respond (but that doesn't mean you can't make fun of me while you respond to the arguments (I quite enjoy that actually:))
p.s. Not that I care if you believe me or not SZ, but I was born in the U.S. and moved to Shiraz before I could speak. I came back to the US for high school and, yes, I am younger than you.
Thus, knowing the IRI laws as well as you do (lol) you should know that I have an Iranian passport (and yes, it's about as worthless as used toilet paper in the global community).
Also, my intention in asking you to meet me up was not to fight you boorish idiot (How retarded and immature is that?) but to argue with me face to face.
Anyways, I am embarrassed at how I chose to argue in this thread so my apologies to Azarmehr and other non-profane posters (that means you too Jared).
"The goal is to organize the world into a MIRAGE of a bi-polar world, with the IR the vanguard of one of the poles, so that political struggle everywhere is played out as a choice between these supposedly opposite, but really unified, poles."
So, the U.S. is trying to fabricate the perception of something like another "Cold War?" What would be the purpose of this?
Furthermore, (aside from all the other obvious factors like Iran's current GDP, military capacity, etc. preclude it from ever being on an equal stage as the U.S.) how can someone have the perception of a bipolar global structure when major security council members (like Russia and China) seemingly haven't been integrated into US v. IRI strategy?
"In my last comment, in discussing why some Arab countries seem to be drawing closer to the West, in fear of IR extremism..."
What Arab countries except Syria and Lebanon? "IR extremism" has been alive and well since the revolution, one could even say more so then. It is not a new phenomenon, so I think to attribute the fact that Arab countries are moving away from Iran (when they were never even close to them) because of IR extremism is simply not true.
They were never close to the IRI bloc (religiously, economically, militarily and otherwise).
But granted, the revolution occurred within the context of the Cold War (and thus much of the geopolitical structure of the world feel victim to that conflict), so I'll pick up in the 90s.
Arab countries have always been closer to the US bloc (except Syria and Lebanon). Saudi, Jordan, Egypt, Algeria, Morocco etc. have never been closer to the IR camp than the US.
So I don't quite see how you can say they are "seemingly moving away from the IR..."
Now their populations are a different story. In fact, most of those countries have to reconcile the incredibly popular perception of the IR amongst their people with the government's interest in staying closer to the US bloc (and thus receiving economic and military aid).
And as for your India example. So what if India makes a public statement in support of IRI? This probably has less to do with the USA then it does with Pakistan. The IRI finds the Sunni extremist groups to be an enormous threat to them just as India does. This may be a case of common interests.
Furthermore, we return to the numbers: India's economy is much more tied to the US than Iran's. They will never move to the Iranian "bloc" and any thing that seems like they are is simply a part of their Pakistan strategy.
Also, let's say India is actually moving to the IR camp as part of the US strategy to create this "bipolar perception" you speak of.
The US is seen as an ally of India, India is now supporting the IR (as you say) and the IRI is an arch enemy of Pakistan. This would create the perception of a tripartite alliance against Pakistan. Then who's bloc would Pakistan be in? And how could this be a positive outcome for the U.S. war in Afghanistan?
The NYT has been reporting on an aggressive effort to improve personal relationships between Pakistani and American leaders in order to fight extremism and make sure the aid package they approved ($1.5bill) gets spent the way the USA intended for it to be spent.
All his is an effort to contain the spilling of the "war" into Pakistan in a way other than militarily.
I guess I am asking why "The [U.S's] goal is to organize the world into a MIRAGE of a bi-polar world, with the IR the vanguard of one of the poles, so that political struggle everywhere is played out as a choice between these supposedly opposite, but really unified, poles."
I don't see the effectiveness in this. It doesn't consider major players like China and Russia. It doesn't take into account the religious deficit among ME states and peoples and presumes that EVEN such a perception could be created.
And even if it is created, it will undoubtedly work to the benefit of the IRI (in the ME ONLY) and lead to what you said...
"Of course, this process increases the status of the IR, and thereby multiplies its popular support in the very status-conscious Arab world, thus moving the world closer to the dark ages I spoke of in my last post, in which many states, are controlled by IR-allied forces, and where rebellion everywhere -- even rebellion over authentic issues -- is dominated by IR flunkies."
Again, why would the U.S. want this scenario?
How does this scenario take into account the the War in Iraq and Afghanistan?
I think you are mistaking strategic blunders by the US that had the effect of augmenting IRI power in the region as deliberate US policy.
The nature of international relations is one in which one scenario cannot be presented as an absolute. Even the policy makers understand that the implementation of a policy doesn't guarantee the intended outcome.
We must consider the possibility of alternate scenarios (achieved deliberately or accidentally) that take into account the politics of other states that would be falling under the umbrella of this "bipolar perception." (like India)
It seems to me that you are presenting a scenario that you v=believe to be the absolute truth but has discounted many critical factors.
But I look forward to your response and I hope to change the tone in our exchanges.
Again, you're an idiot dude. Your arguments are based on the simple notion of hatred for Iran. therefore, all your views are biased and twisted to that effect.
1. The notion that Kuwait consistently receives higher democratic ratings by international organizations was never addressed and simply denied with the childish remark: ""you hate Iran."
Um, no, it was addressed. International Organizations that are American or European have a bias against Iran and therefore will never be a worthy source. Its the same scenario now with the whole flotilla issue and Israel. the US will not criticize Israel, because they are allies. Do you really think that any "western freedom" organization would criticize a country like Egypt, or Kuwait, or Saudi Arabia? Your sources don't mean anything because they are biased just like you.
Many countries require visas to enter their borders longer than a certain amount of time. If you knew anything about international relations you would know that. But a young idealistic idiot like yourself, probably doesn't. so no harm done, ill forgive you for that one.
"Kuwait is more democratic than Iran and I have cited my sources."
Categorically a lie. If i said Israel was a non criminal nation, and gave you sources, would you accept it? no. just as simple as this issue. Kuwait is not more democratic than Iran.
"And if laws do not protect minorities then the government must surely be recognized not to be democratic."
There is no law in Iran the discriminates against Minorities. Iran is the only nation in the Middle east where minorities are actually guaranteed representation and are free to worship. This is evident by the numerous churches and synagogue's in Tehran.
"c. Khamenei is a dictator."
Dictator has absolute power, Khamenei does not have absolute power, therefore he is not a dictator you ignorant prick.
"d. Elections are inherently rigged (no matter the results) when candidates are screened for ideological conformity and religious credentials."
Again, I already gave you a scenario to show you that this is simply idiotic and a logical fallacy. You have no factual basis, you simply say something like this, and then claim that no matter what, you are right! Seriously dude, stop being an ignorant asshole.
"Fact of the matter: All the powers that define the nature of a democracy (for ex. the power to wage war) resides in one man."
Again, FALSE! go read the Iranian constitution. The power to wage war is in the hands of the Parliament! Where do you get this BS from? do you just sit behind your computer, and make up shit?
"they simply have decided to eschew rationality and swim in a sea of ideological stubbornness"
Same can be said for you asshole.
"they are a cult member. Thus, if my arguments aren't addressed I simply won't respond "
What cult am I a member of? This is typical of the Iranian expat community...if you don't believe in their narrow view of what Iran should be...you're a cult member and get a payceck from the IR. Its a joke really, people like you belong in an insane asylum.
"yes, I am younger than you."
I already knew that. Your utopian unrealistic world view of Iran made that chrystal clear.
"(and yes, it's about as worthless as used toilet paper in the global community)."
I guess if you consider the world community only to consist of the US and western Europe, then you may have a point. Even then, you're point is contentious at best since I travel freely around Europe and I get visas if i stay there longer than a certain period of time. Again, nice distortion of the truth
"Also, my intention in asking you to meet me up was not to fight you boorish idiot (How retarded and immature is that?) but to argue with me face to face."
Really?? how do you explain this then asshole....
"I live in Houston, you get a visa to come to my town - come meet me up you "paper tiger." Or are you scared? bak bak bak bak (those are chicken sounds by the way) LOL"
Once you realized I actually am in Houston right now, you changed your tone to just wanting to argue face to face.
You're a dime a dozen, people like you are internet tough guys, and are stupid to boot.
So let's do it, I will meet you anywhere you like, I am actually staying close to downtown in the house I bought here recently. So let's meet up asshole, let's see what arguments you have to tell me face to face.
LOL. You're such a tool bro.
"Again, FALSE! go read the Iranian constitution. The power to wage war is in the hands of the Parliament! Where do you get this BS from? do you just sit behind your computer, and make up shit?"
Really? It's so funny how you claim other people make stuff up and show no proof, when in fact you are making shit up:
Article 110 [Leadership Duties and Powers]
(1) Following are the duties and powers of the Leadership:
1. Delineation of the general policies of the Islamic Republic of Iran after consultation with the Nation's Exigency Council.
2. Supervision over the proper execution of the general policies of the system.
3. Issuing decrees for national referenda.
4. Assuming supreme command of the Armed Forces.
5. DECLARATION OF WAR AND PEACE AND THE MOBILIZATION OF THE ARMED FORCES.
And there are more powers he has characteristic of a dictator, but # 5 is pertinent to our discussion.
So now what? Do you want me to post it in Farsi?
And again, your response to my evidence that Kuwait is more democratic (and other points) is that I'm biased - AS IF YOU'RE NOT.
I'm obviously going to be against a dictatorship that divests minorities of their rights and even the majority of basic human rights.
"There is no law in Iran that discriminates against Minorities. Iran is the only nation in the Middle east where minorities are actually guaranteed representation and are free to worship. This is evident by the numerous churches and synagogue's in Tehran."
Again, gays are a minority. Are they allowed to live freely?
It's not just about Christians and Jews and worship.
And as far as all Western Institutions being biased:
"International Organizations that are American or European have a bias against Iran and therefore will never be a worthy source. Its the same scenario now with the whole flotilla issue and Israel. the US will not criticize Israel, because they are allies. Do you really think that any "western freedom" organization would criticize a country like Egypt, or Kuwait, or Saudi Arabia? Your sources don't mean anything because they are biased just like you."
Just because these reports rank Kuwait's government as more "democratic" than Iran doesn't mean they don't criticize Kuwait's shortfalls.
Furthermore, show me an Eastern Institution that actually conducts such research and lets look at their results.
You live in your own world if you think these reports don't criticize Saudi and Egypt.
Just take the time to read one so you can educate yourself because you are consistently losing arguments to a "young idealist" like myself.
I feel like you should take your own advice:
You have no factual basis, you simply say something like this, and then claim that no matter what, you are right! Seriously dude, stop being an ignorant asshole.
And in conclusion:
1. Kuwait is more "democratic" and no proof has been offered to the contrary besides biased personal statements and accusations.
2. My points about the legal rights of minorities remain untouched and thus victorious.
3. Khamenei is a dictator and has the sole power to wage war and peace as I noted in the IRI embassy's translation of the constitution.
4. When candidates are screened for ideological and religious conformity elections are inherently rigged, regardless of the results. No serious argument to the contrary has been offered and no serious person who has actually LIVED in a democracy would think otherwise.
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