Tuesday, December 01, 2009

Why the Green Movement Will Win

This is supposed to be a meeting between a member of the Council for Student Grants from the Science Ministry in the Islamic Republic Embassy in Paris with a group of Iranian students who are receiving grants. The students however are not interested to talk about their grants, instead they want to tell the Science Ministry representative that they support their student colleagues in Iran and the Green Movement. Until a few months ago these students would have been the last to challenge the authorities and risk receiving their grants, yet look at them, so resolute and defiant with their powerful arguments that the Ministry representative just doesn't know how to answer them. The two Baseej students sitting opposite them can't do anything either other than look vindictive and stupid.



'..We are not indifferent to what is happening to our classmates in Iran..we can not tolerate what is happening to our classmates in Iran, but no matter how much violence you throw at us our protests will be peaceful and we will not respond in any other way...The way you have dealt with dissent is so unprecedented that you have disgraced Iran...what makes you think you are in the position of the prophet to decide what people can read and what people can think?...why do a minority think they have the right to tell us who we can choose and to have the right to veto if we choose from who they tell us to choose from and they still don't like who we have chosen?...you can not blame the students for voicing their protests, look at what you have done and understand why it has come to this. How can you call it a Ministry of Science when you repress science and the appointed Minister of Science has such a dubious track record? obviously the head of the coup junta has appointed him to further antagonise the students, the Minister says the university lecturers should be more supervised. How much more?...We love our country, we are Iranian but in our country as soon as a student protests he is accused of being this and that..We love our country, Iran is not just yours, its ours too, our fathers and our forefathers have been Iranian, how can you tell us we don't have the right to live in our country and not have the right to think in our country? Iran belongs to all of us, let it be free, if you think your nation are a learned nation then let them choose...'



'...we say these things knowing what the consequences for us may be but we can not remain silent after what has happened to our friends or what is happening to our people inside the country, Commander Jazayeri of the Revolutionary Guards audaciously threatened us as activists outside Iran, they say the activists outside Iran who are supporting the movement inside Iran will be dealt with, in the past you didnt say it publicly just did it, now you have become so audacious that you declare your threats publicly ... I repeat we belong to our homeland and we love our country, we do not consider our country to belong to any specific group or sect, Iran belongs to all Iranians from all walks and thoughts and religions, we are neither connected to any foreign powers nor are we deviants, no, we are human beings, we have the ability to think, we will continue until both you will be free to say what you want to say and we too will be able to live free and think...we love Iran, it belongs to all of us, we will die for Iran and we will fight any group who want to take over and impose their way of thinking upon the rest....Ever since we were seven years old you told us at schools that the Shah did this and the Shah did that, we grow up we reach maturity and see everything you say the Shah did, you are doing yourselves today but in the name of religion and much worse with more brutality...'

32 comments:

Winston said...

good for them

Mehrtash said...

Couldn't have been worded any better; so eloquent and true, it marks the next turning point for the struggle for freedom in Iran.

Thomas Pain said...

The Green Movement will fail because in Iran, Ahmadinejad is immensely popular among the general populace. Just look at the pre-election (2009) poll numbers as well as the election results. Ahmadinejad has easily 2/3 of the voters' support. Besides, no one in Iran really cares for the billionaire Rafsanjani and his puppet Mousavi.

Sohrab said...

Thomas Pain,

Go back to being a 9/11 truther. You don't understand Iran.

Arash H said...

Thomas Pain, How much have you been paid by Islamic Republic to write such a bullshit? how many potatoes did Ahmadinejad give you last time? For your information, I prefer billionaires to upstart idiots!

Winston said...

thomas pain, you're a pain

Arash said...

Thomas Pain aka George Galloway.

How dare you fly the Gadsden flag? You are not a libertarian you are a disgusting apologist for fascists. Get a grip and stop being an IRI stooge.

Arash

esfandiarireza said...

How can the Green Movement win when it lost the election?

If you don't believe that Ahmadi won, how do you explain the WPO post-election poll which more or less mirrored the official results nationwide (not just Shemiran)

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/092109.html

Here is a little poem I have written about Ahmadi and the Green movement.

در باغ ایمان یار مردم نشست

بلبل شادوار دم جان میکشد

گیتی‌ درخشان شد ایشان میگفتند

از نیاز توده روشن میشود

فرشتگان اوج آسمان گرفتند

در باتلاقی موج سبز گود میافتد

میان مهربانان کی‌ توان کرد؟

نژاد احمد فر عالی‌ دارد

Azarmehr said...

:))))))))))))) what an utterly crap poem! what a disturbed mind you have. Well I mean apart from the poem who else would invent a non-existent Yussef Bozorgmehr as a co-writer of his articles but a man who desperately needs a shrink?

what an arse licker you are :)))))

Sohrab said...

First you were "REZA." Now you are "Esfandiarireza." Whatever you want to call yourself --

Polling in Iran is not very reliable, now is it? If you can end up getting raped and beaten for expressing your views freely, you're going to make sure you express the right views.

And as for your poem -- all I can say is: don't quit your day job, buddy.

Anonymous said...

Potkin,

My full name is Reza Yousef Esfandiari Bozorgmehr.Go figure.

You know who I am. There are only five Bozorgmehr families in London. You know that my family are called "taghooti" and not "akhondzad".

Anyway, do you think it is right that an Iranian nationalist like yourself is so friendly with the British Establishment?

Or are you pro-British unlike most Iranians?

Sohrab said...

Cheap shots and character assassinations on decent Iranians - that's all these lackeys and lampreys capable of.

Reza said...

SOHRAB

The protests have largely been confined to the North of Tehran and the regime is hardly going to rape or torture anyone for admitting to having voted for Mousavi - one of the approved list of candidates.

The post-election poll shows that 87% of the Iranian public voted, 62% have strong confidence in the veracity of the results and 64% strongly back Ahmadinejad.

The official results had 85% voting and 62% casting ballots for Ahmadi. Strangely identical within the margin of error.

I still haven't heard an argument for how this election was rigged other than they made the numbers up. Well, as a trained statistician, I can tell you that this notion is bullshit. But don't ask me, ask Thomas Lotze of Harvard.

http://thomaslotze.com/iran/index.php

Ahmadi won nationwide but lost in Tehran. The people of Tehran are not the representatives for the country as a whole.

Azarmehr said...

Reza Esfanidar yussef bozorgmehr :))))

what is it about you taghootis and former boot lickers of the Shah? You are always the first ones to change sides. I bet you are best friends with Haleh Afshar. May be you write poems about her as well :)))))))

Sohrab said...

Reza the Lamprey (google this term they are magnificent creatures and highly descriptive of you),

1) How did Karroubi and Mousavi lose their home provinces?

2) How come the Interior Ministry announced the results in just a few hours, unprecedented in IRI history (I was there for previous elections and it always took at least 2-3 days since we don't electronic voting and last I checked they don't have exit fucking polling)?

3) How come Khamenei first called the results divinely ordained, then walked it back and admitted there may have been some irregularities?

4) What happened to the regime's own admission that there may have been 1-3 MILLION votes miscounted for the Ahmaghi column? Even if it was just 1-3 MILLION, which it was certainly more -- that's still 1-3 MILLION miscounted or fraudulent votes!

5) And getting back to the more structural, constitutional question: How are the elections open and democratic to begin with, when an unelected body can pre-screen candidates? (Don't you dare try to deflect this question by pointing to flaws in the US electoral system: it has worked consistently for more than 200 years and we just elected the African American son of a single mother who was on welfare -- talk about meritocracy!)

Sohrab said...

I looked at your shitty link, Reza:

A) He is not "of/from Harvard." He just received his undergrad from Harvard. Big difference.

B) This was not peer-reviewed research. It wouldn't be admissible in court. It's just a project he threw together for his personal website. Just because he has a prestigious undergrad degree doesn't mean he is the be all end all of all things statistics.

SZ said...

This is typical of Potkin and Sohrab,

They ignore the argument this Reza person is making, they completely ignore his post's content and focus on his personal issues.

Its true, Ahmadinejad lost Tehran and thats not a surprise, tehran is more westernized than the rest of the country. But of course, Sohrab, the fake law student claims he knows Iranians so much better all the way from the United States...while people who live in Iran know nothing of Iranians....And then they wonder why they are called "dissidents" and "exiles"...haha.

Reza said...

Sohrab jan,

Thanks for the questions:

"How did Karroubi and Mousavi lose their home provinces?"

Same reason Moin lost his home province of Esfahan in 2005. Karroubi was eclipsed by both Ahmadi and Mousavi this time round.

Mousavi won West Azerbaijan province and his native distict of Shabestar - Khameneh is only just inside East Azerbaijan. He won in the Azeri city of Ardabil and very nearly won in Tabriz.

"How come the Interior Ministry announced the results in just a few hours, unprecedented in IRI history (I was there for previous elections and it always took at least 2-3 days since we don't electronic voting and last I checked they don't have exit fucking polling)"

In the second round of the 2005 election, the winner was declared after 2-3 hours. What happened this time was that the first 5 million votes (mostly from remote parts of the country) were counted and this showed enough of a margin to declare Ahmadi the winner. I looked at some of these ballot boxes which had fewer than 100 votes whereas those from the big cities had several thousand. It doesn't take long to count so few votes per ballot box.

"How come Khamenei first called the results divinely ordained, then walked it back and admitted there may have been some irregularities?"

He didn't admit any irregularities. He said if the candidates wanted to check, he was OK with a partial recount of 10% of ballot boxes. He also asked the GC to fully investigate any claims of rigging. But he also said that the margin of victory - 11 million votes - was just too big for the outcome to be wrong. He said that the maximum level of any fraud could not exceed 1 million.

"What happened to the regime's own admission that there may have been 1-3 MILLION votes miscounted for the Ahmaghi column? Even if it was just 1-3 MILLION, which it was certainly more -- that's still 1-3 MILLION miscounted or fraudulent votes!",

The GC stated that in 50 districts the turnout had exceeded 100% - they put this down to the mobility of the electorate - you can vote anywhere- as well issues to do with redistricting and the accuracy of a 3 year old census. They said that even if you annulled the results from these districts it would amount to 3 million - NOT that 3 million votes had gone missing!

"And getting back to the more structural, constitutional question: How are the elections open and democratic to begin with, when an unelected body can pre-screen candidates? (Don't you dare try to deflect this question by pointing to flaws in the US electoral system: it has worked consistently for more than 200 years and we just elected the African American son of a single mother who was on welfare -- talk about meritocracy!)"

The American system is a fixed 2- party one. Other parties are denied federal funding to compete and are censored out by the corporate media. It will always be a choice of Coke or Pepsi, GOP or Democrat.

The Iranian system, on the other hand, affords equal coverage to even minor candidates ( like Karroubi and Rezai) even though the list was downsized from 500 to 4. The reason for this is that you cannot have an election with so many candidates and expect to treat them all fairly. The constitution invests the GC with the power to determine the suitability for candidacy based on criteria stated in Article 115.

Now, if the Iranian people thought they did not have a choice, they didn't have to vote - but 85% of them clearly thought they did. In America a "high turnout" is anything over 60%.

SZ said...

Reza,

Its pointless to argue with Sohrab, he is the fake law student who thinks he is a law deity.

The dissidents hate Iran's election result because their only hope for the dismantling of Iran's government and system lost the election.

There is no evidence of fraud, none what so ever. The fact is that you can't cheat 11 million votes, it just can't happen. The protestors are mostly young people in major cities who want a more liberal nation, and thats fine, but these lot here make them out to be all Iranians, and that is categorically false.

The majority of Iranians want changes to be made within the government's system, not to change the whole government.

But alas, people like Sohrab (doubt if that's his real name) and Winston (def not his real name) and Potkin don't know anything but kill, destroy and demolish when it comes to Iran. That is why they live abroad and have no support.

Reza said...

SZ:

Believe it or not, I support much of the agenda of the Green movement - I want rule of law,press freedom, human rights to be observed etc...but it is a major principle of democracy to accept the will of the people and the undeniable fact is that 24 million Iranians voted for Ahmadi. Why? Because unlike the presidents of the past, he reached out to the people in the provinces outside of Tehran and Shemiran. In my own family's hometown of Tafresh (near Arak) they saw the head of state for the first time and he funded projects in employment and infrastructure there.

The best thing the Green movement could do is to work with the government and not do all this civil disobedience which is counter-productive.

SZ said...

Reza,

I agree, Iran's government and system could be improved tremendously within the framework of the system.

The only issue is that lackey's like these dissidents abroad want to turn Iran into the next US vassal state. That is the only thing that bothers me about these traitors.

I don't mind laxing the laws for women's dress, laxing the laws on who can run and not run for office, laxing the laws on alcohol and many other things. Iran can be just fine if these dissidents and the western nations stop threatening Iran with attack every minute, and stop placing sanctions on Iran because we want nuclear power.

The dissidents who live abroad have it easy, they curse Iran, and don't care about its people, they just want to see the government replaced by a puppet leader.

Sohrab said...

Again Reza the lamprey and SZ the kirkesh,

If you could explain away one or two of these irregularities, one could begin to accept your argument. But all of them combined, not to mention the profound anger of Iranians across the country which was on display throughout the summer, put the lie to your claims.

As to the more fundamental, constitutional question. You did exactly what I thought you would, which is to criticize the American system, which is certainly not perfect, rather than answer for the immoral and undemocratic character of the IRI constitution:

1) Why not leave it to the Iranian people to decide through the open marketplace of candidates and ideas who is "fit" to run Iran? What special quality endows the Guardian Council with the ability to discern the fitness of a candidate that our own wise people don't have? Why don't you trust the wisdom of the Iranian people?

2) Why are Iranians from other faiths, not to mention our brave women, excluded altogether from seeking executive office, i.e. the presidency? How can you defend the system's fundamental racism and sexism?

3) If you are concerned about too many candidates running for office, why not allow formal political parties (not factions but real parties) from across the ideological spectrum to contest the polity, thus reducing the total number of random candidates and creating stability in the long-term by allowing different voices to be heard? Why can't we have a genuine Iranian left, Iranian social democrats, Iranian greens (environmentalists), Iranian liberal democrats, Iranian conservatives, and yes even Iranian Islamic parties all vying for the polity and having the voters decide who can best move our country forward and which ideas should drive our future?

4) Assuming, in arguendo, that Iranian elections are free (which they are not for the above reasons), why even have legislative and executive branches when unelected, unaccountable bodies and the "Supreme Jurisconsult" can quash the popular will with the stroke of a pen? Why should a policy be accepted or rejected based on whether or not it comports with Islamic law? Don't you want to see our country move forward technologically, economically, and socially? Well Islamic criteria -- as the only criteria -- for policymaking prevent that from happening. As the World Bank has posited, this approach to policy is responsible for the massive brain drain rate (the highest on the planet) which means our country is rapidly losing all of this God-given talent every year -- and for what?

5) How do you account for the ethno-sectarian tensions that constantly trouble our homeland but for the fact that our political system does not afford minorities to be heard, thereby jeopardizing our territorial sovereignty and political stability?

I have more but I'll let you grapple with these questions first.

Reza said...

SZ

Just to respond to your points:

I agree, Iran's government and system could be improved tremendously within the framework of the system.

Yes, its amazing how much Iran has changed since the days of the "cultural revolution" that Potkin remembers so vividly.

The only issue is that lackey's like these dissidents abroad want to turn Iran into the next US vassal state. That is the only thing that bothers me about these traitors.

I think Poktin needs to clarify whether he is a nationalist and rejects British and American interference in Iran or not. Does he want Iran to be a regional power or not? If so, this would clash with foreign hegemonic interests.

I don't mind laxing the laws for women's dress, laxing the laws on who can run and not run for office, laxing the laws on alcohol and many other things.

Yes, the Gashte Ershad can go too far by stopping women who wear boots etc but Iran is still very liberal compared to Saudi Arabia or even Iraq.

Iran can be just fine if these dissidents and the western nations stop threatening Iran with attack every minute, and stop placing sanctions on Iran because we want nuclear power.

Potkin wants a "secular" Iran in a very conservative and religious country. That's his mistake.I think some dissidents, not necessarily Potkin, in their desire to hurt the regime are prepared to hurt the nation and the Iranian people. There is no excuse for sanctions or war.

The dissidents who live abroad have it easy, they curse Iran, and don't care about its people, they just want to see the government replaced by a puppet leader.

They only hear the bad news and see none of the benefits of living in Iran. Every country has its good and bad points.I also think most have a Tehran-centric view of the country.

Reza said...

Sohrab jan,

As ever, you raise good points which must be debated.Please keep the questions coming.

If you could explain away one or two of these irregularities, one could begin to accept your argument.

The anger expressed on the streets is because the people were deceived into thinking that their votes were stolen. I don't think you realise just how well Mousavi has manipulated his supporters. And the simple fact is that the protests have been limited to the urban middle class (such as those living in North Tehran) who are a minority of Iranians.

Why not leave it to the Iranian people to decide through the open marketplace of candidates and ideas who is "fit" to run Iran?


Would you have allowed all 475 candidates to run? Would you have given them all equal time on radio & TV and in the debates? Its just not possible. Yes, maybe the Majlis and not the GC should determine the suitability, but I didn't hear any complaints about the choice on offer this time or last time we held a presidential election- the turnout reflects this.

Why are Iranians from other faiths, not to mention our brave women, excluded altogether from seeking executive office, i.e. the presidency?

Actually, the GC has reinterpreted the constitution to allow for women. Had someone like Massoumeh Ebtekar stood, she might have been on the ballot. Article 110 does not say the President has to be a Muslim, only committed to defending the official religion.

If you are concerned about too many candidates running for office, why not allow formal political parties (not factions but real parties) from across the ideological spectrum to contest the polity?

Iran's constitution can and has been amended - I suggest you write to the relevant authorities with your proposal.

Assuming, in arguendo, that Iranian elections are free (which they are not for the above reasons), why even have legislative and executive branches when unelected, unaccountable bodies and the "Supreme Jurisconsult" can quash the popular will with the stroke of a pen?

The GC can veto any legislature which is contrary to the constitution (like the Supreme Court in the US) and which is contrary to the Sharia. This actually rarely happens. When Khatami was in power, Khamenei did not oppose most of his foreign and domestic policies including sending an offer for improved relations to Bush in 2003.

Why should a policy be accepted or rejected based on whether or not it comports with Islamic law?


If we had Islamic law in the West, there would not be the profound financial crisis we experience now.

Don't you want to see our country move forward technologically, economically, and socially? Well Islamic criteria -- as the only criteria -- for policymaking prevent that from happening.

Farare maghz is exaggerated and, in any case, why are people from China and India (the most successful economies) coming to the West? In part, its because the education system is so easy to get into. Iran has actually created an academy for geniuses (nokbegan).

How do you account for the ethno-sectarian tensions that constantly trouble our homeland?

That's bullshit. You know that Azeris dominate the Iranian Government (eg. Khamenei and Mousavi) and that Gilaks, Mazandars and others face no discrimination. We do have some problems with Kurds, Arabs and Baluchis but these tensions are stoked by outsiders.It is no secret that the CIA is backing PJAK and Jundallah.

Sohrab said...

Rezaye bigheyrat,

Don't call me "Sohrab jan" you cocksucking piece of shit. It's so patronizing. I consider you an enemy of our homeland and an enemy of our people. So do not fucking call me that.

"And the simple fact is that the protests have been limited to the urban middle class (such as those living in North Tehran) who are a minority of Iranians."

This is simply not true. Multiple independent news agencies characterized the uprising as "nationwide." We have video on youtube of protests across the country, including rural provinces. Moreover, I have relatives and friends of the family all over Iran, and they've all reported protests in their respective parts of the country. So don't lie. This isn't IRIB or PressTV where you can get away with whatever bullshit you want because there is no criticism and no critical inquiry.

Yes, maybe the Majlis and not the GC should determine the suitability, but I didn't hear any complaints about the choice on offer this time or last time we held a presidential election- the turnout reflects this.

You just conceded this. Even your spin has limits, I guess. But then you lied some more: PEOPLE DID COMPLAIN you fudgepacking assmunch. Maybe the reason you didn't hear those complaints was because those people (like people in my family) used to be too afraid to bring complaints like this up publicly because we have had terrible experiences resulting from far more innocuous acts of defiance and criticism. And don't make me point out that numerous international journalistic associations condemn the IRI for the number of newspapers it has shut down and the number of journalists it has jailed. So no wonder your ears were deaf to these complaints.

"If we had Islamic law in the West, there would not be the profound financial crisis we experience now."

This is just hilarious. Yes, but we also would have floggings for drinking. We would also have stonings (still going on despite the moratorium). If you love Islamic law, why don't you trek your ass back to where it's practiced since apparently you can't handle a liberal democracy?

"Farare maghz is exaggerated..."

Um... "According to the IMF more than a 150,000 of the best young minds in Iran are leaving every year." The World Bank says Iran's brain drain rate is the highest on the planet. See here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6240287.stm - What the fuck are you talking about?

We do have some problems with Kurds, Arabs and Baluchis but these tensions are stoked by outsiders.It is no secret that the CIA is backing PJAK and Jundallah.

Cocksucker, don't you know the US is invested in regional stability because it has some 200K+ troops in the region. The last thing the US wants is more instability. But the IRI being an oppressive Shi'ite regime has jeopardized Iran's relationship with its ethnic minorities and therefore jeopardized our national sovereignty.

As for your comparison between the US Supreme Court and the Guardian Council and the Supreme Leader - the justices of the US Supreme Court are put there by elected officials, i.e. an elected president. Moreover, they apply the law of the land, which is again formulated by democratically-elected legislative bodies who do not have to answer to unelected bodies. And again, these are secular laws, not the laws of God as manifested by the Supreme Cocksucker as he pleases.

So get the fuck out of here with your piece of shit arguments, you fucking asswipe. Every single one of them is factually and logically refutable as I just demonstrated. Off with you fucker.

Anonymous said...

Sohrab,

Its confirmed, you are a teenager.
Your arguments are crap, and its funny you actually believe them

Keep the crap coming, I enjoy reading your dillusions

SZ said...

Sohrab Jan,

On the contrary, you are an enemy of Iran and its people.

"This is simply not true. Multiple independent news agencies characterized the uprising as "nationwide." We have video on youtube of protests across the country, including rural provinces. Moreover, I have relatives and friends of the family all over Iran, and they've all reported protests in their respective parts of the country. So don't lie. This isn't IRIB or PressTV where you can get away with whatever bullshit you want because there is no criticism and no critical inquiry."

Ok, so let me get this straight, if multiple independent sources say that 10 people show up for protests across 10 different cities in Iran, does that mean that the government is about to collapse? NO you fucking idiot. The number of cities protests occur in has no importance when the TOTAL amount of people who show up are barely scraping 5 million. That's less than 10% of the nation. Do you really believe that this government is going to be scared of 5 million disgruntled young kids in the streets. Hell, the Basij alone number around 9 million! Get lost kid, you don't know Iran.

"You just conceded this. Even your spin has limits, I guess. But then you lied some more: PEOPLE DID COMPLAIN you fudgepacking assmunch. Maybe the reason you didn't hear those complaints was because those people (like people in my family) used to be too afraid to bring complaints like this up publicly because we have had terrible experiences resulting from far more innocuous acts of defiance and criticism. And don't make me point out that numerous international journalistic associations condemn the IRI for the number of newspapers it has shut down and the number of journalists it has jailed. So no wonder your ears were deaf to these complaints."

Umm..Iranians didn't complain because they VOTED you fucking idiot! If the people didn't believe in the process of electing their officials, they wouldn't vote. Its that simple. The fact that turnout was high, tells you that the people genuinely believe in the system. What does shutting down newspapers have to do with the people voting en masse in the recent elections? And fyi, the newspapers that are shut down, are explicitly against the government and imply that the people should change the government. Those warrant being shut down. Even in the US, you can't say in a newspaper, you want to change the government structure or system, or that you want to kill a public official.

"According to the IMF more than a 150,000 of the best young minds in Iran are leaving every year." The World Bank says Iran's brain drain rate is the highest on the planet. See here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6240287.stm - What the fuck are you talking about?"

Hey shit bag, there is a brain drain, but its not because Iranians hate the government and therefore decide to leave. Its because Iran can't provide them with enough jobs. The truth is that Iran is under sanctions for simply wanting to be independent and have its own foreign policy. I agree there is a brain drain that is hurting Iran currently, but eventually, the sanctions will be lifted aka Pakistan and India, once they acquired nuclear technology. Slowly the west is beginning to realize that Iran won't change course.

Continued...

SZ said...

"Cocksucker, don't you know the US is invested in regional stability because it has some 200K+ troops in the region. The last thing the US wants is more instability. But the IRI being an oppressive Shi'ite regime has jeopardized Iran's relationship with its ethnic minorities and therefore jeopardized our national sovereignty."

Did you seriously just say that the US is invested in regional stability?????? The region has been unstable and at war for the last 60 years!!!! Where the fuck have you been? Israel and the arabs have been fighting a war for the last 60 years and this idiot fake law student claims that the US is invested in stability?

Is there stability in Pakistan? Is there stability in the Kurdish regions of Turkey? Is there stability in Yemen? Is there stability in Lebanon? Is there stability in Palestine? Fuck, if you're this ignorant, then there is no point in talking to you. But the truth is that the United States routinely as a matter of policy and strategy supports anti-Iranian terrorist groups, such as the MEK, Jundullah, and all the Kurdish groups. For you to deny that is plain stupid and ignorant. Khamenei himself is a Azeri, Mousavi and him are RELATED. My family is from Mazandaran, and my other half is from Khuzestan, according to you, we are all minorities and hate the central government. Shut the fuck up you stupid fucking ignorant prick. Stick to your imaginary law studies.

So whats your point? That the US system is different than Iran's??? Well fucking a, you must be the first person to notice that! DUH you fucking idiot, Iran doesn't want to be like the United States, Iranians are not a secular people, in fact, they will never be. So what the US system is different, what the fuck does that have to do with Iran?

You love the US system so much, well good, continue to live there. Go suck your congressman's dick for all I care, but don't assume you can tell Iran how to run its government when it was the very same PEOPLE who kicked the rat bastard Shah out and installed our current system. Fuck off!

"So get the fuck out of here with your piece of shit arguments, you fucking asswipe. Every single one of them is factually and logically refutable as I just demonstrated. Off with you fucker."

Exactly what I think of you. you're an idiot, and its become increasingly clear...

Sohrab said...

Silence is compliance, Reza.

Sohrab said...

"the newspapers that are shut down, are explicitly against the government and imply that the people should change the government. Those warrant being shut down. Even in the US, you can't say in a newspaper, you want to change the government structure or system, or that you want to kill a public official."

Wow, you're so fucking misguided, Shervin Jan, and this quote is a perfect example.

1. Name one reformist newspaper that has advocated for the killing of a public official. The only newspaper I know that constantly threatens public officials is Keyhan, which is a hardline newspaper.

2. Yes you CAN criticize the US government and even call for structural change or even to have the Constitution and the democratic system overthrown.

See, for just two examples: http://www.cpusa.org/ and http://www.socialistalternative.org

These are both websites of parties (Socialist Alternative and Communist Party) who are calling for complete structural change, including public takeover of all corporations, which would effectively nullify the 5th Amendment to the US Constitution. They want to usher in a glorious socialist future in the US of A and are completely open about it. I personally disagree with them and find their views repugnant. But they can say whatever they want up to and including calling for complete structural and systemic change and abandoning the Constitution. Exactly the kind of criticism that can get an Iranian reformer raped by one of your basiji buddies.

You guys just don't have a leg to stand you bunch of fools. Enjoy watching your favorite regime crumble. I hear the protests have continued through the night.

Oh and PS you never need 100% of the populace on the street to have regime change. Out of the total 70 million, you've got to account for the old and infirm, the children whose parents won't let them go, and of course the regime supporters. But five million is huge. Like Potkin said, just because half a million Britons turned out for anti-war protests doesn't mean that less than 1% of Britain is anti-war.

SZ said...

Sohrab Jendeh,

"Oh and PS you never need 100% of the populace on the street to have regime change. Out of the total 70 million, you've got to account for the old and infirm, the children whose parents won't let them go, and of course the regime supporters. But five million is huge. Like Potkin said, just because half a million Britons turned out for anti-war protests doesn't mean that less than 1% of Britain is anti-war."


Yes, the sick, infirm, and old total about 60 million right? considering 40% of Iran's population is under the age of 35, you want to sit there and claim that this is a popular movement among the people. In fact this movement is among the upper middle class urbanites. You can't deny that.

And you fucking idiot, I NEVER said you need a 100% of the populace to to come to the street for regime change, but at least you need about 25 to 35% of the people, and this "movement" can't even muster 5%. You can't be that ignorant can you?

And potkin's point is not valid when you are trying to change the regime. During the Shah's fall, the young and everyone else would come out en masse for his demise. The people coming out against the war have nothing to do with the government, its not a national issue or an issue that all people care about. Changing the regime however should be a nationalistic issue, and in this case, you see that people don't give a rats ass, thats why they aren't showing up.

Like I said, stick to your imaginary law studies, i'm sure your parents must be proud....haha...fucking fag bag fudgepacker.

Sohrab said...

"1. Name one reformist newspaper that has advocated for the killing of a public official. The only newspaper I know that constantly threatens public officials is Keyhan, which is a hardline newspaper.

2. Yes you CAN criticize the US government and even call for structural change or even to have the Constitution and the democratic system overthrown. "

So just so we all know -- you conceded these two points since you didn't address them.